1st, 4th (and hopefully not the 2d) Amendments
POLYGAMIST CULT RAIDED; CPS SEIZES ABUSE VICTIMS!
Two small problems: first, there wasn’t any “polygamy” per se going on; and second, there wasn’t any abuse going on.
Have you lost your freakin’ mind?! Think about it.
“Polygamy” as defined by the law requires at least “Bigamy” which requires “marriage.” “Marriages” didn’t take place. Not even “Civil Ceremonies.” By the definition used by the DPS/CPS in Texas, “polygamy” is running rampant in every urban center in the USA today. That is, women having multiple children by multiple fathers. Think about it.
Abuse. O.K., after the state seizes the children and waterboards them for a few weeks, what accusations do we have? Zip. Zero. Zilch. Remember the history of “false abuse syndrome” where children are talked into lying about abuse by “professional social workers?” First showed up in the 1980s after a couple of very embarrassing cases (large $ settlements by state governments needed to cover up the mistakes). Yeah, it’s a “documented syndrome” and the victims of such cruelty have to deal with the false/implanted memories well into adulthood.
Underage girls having babies! Again- zip, zero, zilch. The CPS recently had to backtrack on the two (!) cases of “underage motherhood” they claimed to have found. One of the “teenage girls” was 20 and the other was 18. Oops. O.K., take a random slice of 400+ urban USA citizens: what is the rate of “underage motherhood;” even “underage mothers of children with adult fathers?” Anyone got the numbers on NYC, Detroit, Atlanta, Chicago? LA? O.K., what about the abuse heaped on the young males in the compound? Aside from the abuse perpetrated by the DPS/CPS, there have been no credible reports of any actual abuse taking place- and, most tellingly, no indictments.
Think about it some more: if the state had ANYTHING credible by now, you would have seen it splashed across every major media outlet in the world.
I pray the wheels of justice finally begin grinding away at this shameful situation.
Oh By The Way: FOLLOW THE MONEY![acres of useless land converted into multi-million dollar prime real estate with quarried stone buildings, riding trails, etc. Paranoid? Hey, sometimes they really are out to get you- especially if you dress funny, talk funny, and disrupt the local economy of small-town bible belt America. Good background information on the relationship between the “cult” [sic] and the local town folk in a recent Texas Monthly article. Chilling. And *nobody* in authority inhte Stae of Texas is willing to tlak about *any* aspect of this situation; from the Governor on down to the local Sherriff.]
Well, Steve, I am not sure you can support an accusation of “waterboarding” the kids.
You make some interesting points. Do you have any links, or MSM reports that could be useful in supporting some of the assertions here? For instance, I remember some stories of learning that supposed under-aged mothers weren’t, but cannot remember if the stories then said those were the only presumed cases.
Hmmm- well, technically not waterboarding; however, what would you call separating a four year old from his/her mother and shoving anatomically correct dolls in their face saying ” . . . we can’t let you see your mommy again until you show us where your daddy touched you . . . ”
After three weeks of this *ona daily basis* it is absolutely amazing that *not a single charge of abuse* has been brought.
First it was “over 30 cases of forced child rape” to “multiple cases of arranged underage marriage” to “some cases of underage motherhood” to now . . .
“We are continuing to investigate allegations of underage sex” after “revising” the circumstances and ages of the “victims.”
the other steve
[p.s. there is very little MSM reporting of any of this. Do you think we would have this media blackout if the original charges were substantiated? Absence of evidence does not constitute evidence of absence for sure; however, when the “odds are in the houses’ favor” and “the house” is losing big time what does that mean? I’m just saying the benefit of the doubt has significantly shifted from “guilty until proven innocent” back to “innocent until proven guilty” BIG TIME.]
O.K. sure I’ll rustle up some “wikipedia level” reporting on this . . .
1. Local media reporting that the “dozens” of “underage pregnancies” (out of 400+ “children”) has been revised down to “at least three underage [18 yr old vs. 17 yr old age of consent in Texas] conceptions.” Note the moving criteria- from 17 yr old to 18 yr old; and from pregnancy to conception.
2. Due to the cost of the raid and the accompanying process, the state comptroller is recommending SEIZING THE ASSETS of the group to recoup the expenses. Well, duh.
Is this really happening? In America?
So far- what evidence do we have that any crimes were committed in the first place? What indictments have been handed down?
Excerpt from the Texas State Third Court of Appeals (Austin) today summary findings (http://www.courts.state.tx.us/yfzranch/home.asp for entry to court decisions; specific decision at http://www.3rdcoa.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/PDFOpinion.asp?OpinionId=16865):
” . . . the record demonstrates the following facts, which are undisputed by
â€¢ The only danger to the male children or the female children who had not
reached puberty identified by the Department was the Departmentâ€™s assertion
that the â€œpervasive belief systemâ€ of the FLDS community groomed the
males to be perpetrators of sexual abuse later in life and taught the girls to
submit to sexual abuse after reaching puberty;
â€¢ There was no evidence that the male children, or the female children who had
not reached puberty, were victims of sexual or other physical abuse or in
danger of being victims of sexual or other physical abuse;
â€¢ While there was evidence that twenty females had become pregnant between
the ages of thirteen and seventeen, there was no evidence regarding the
marital status of these girls when they became pregnant or the circumstances
under which they became pregnant other than the general allegation that the
girls were living in an FLDS community with a belief system that condoned
underage marriage and sex;
â€¢ There was no evidence that any of the female children other than the five
identified as having become pregnant between the ages of fifteen and
seventeen were victims or potential victims of sexual or other physical abuse;
â€¢ With the exception of the five female children identified as having become
pregnant between the ages of fifteen and seventeen, there was no evidence of
any physical abuse or harm to any other child;
â€¢ The Relators have identified their children among the 468 taken into custody
by the Department, and none of the Relatorsâ€™ children are among the five the
Department has identified as being pregnant minors; and
â€¢ The Department conceded at the hearing that teenage pregnancy, by itself, is
not a reason to remove children from their home and parents, but took the
position that immediate removal was necessary in this case because â€œthere is
a mindset that even the young girls report that they will marry at whatever
age, and that itâ€™s the highest blessing they can have to have children.â€
There’s a lot more- but the bottom line is that the TX CPS has just been reprimanded- spanked pretty severely- by the 3d court of appeals for:
1) Failing to satisfy any of the reasonable requirements required by law prior to removing the children from their homes; and
2) Acted with negligence and reckless disregard for the law in executing the investigation, search, and removal; and
3) Having failed to exercise reasonable care and diligence leading up to and during the actions of the state, continue to act in reckless disregard for the law after the seizure, continuing to this day.
O.K., a “win” for the YFZ Ranch parents and children- in court- but the state has still not acted to right the wrongs committed.
Will this turn public opinion? Will this prevent the state from proceeding with condemnation and seizure of the property?
Will the parents get their children back?
Well, this is probably my last comment on this thread as it sinks into obscurity.
The Texas Supreme Court has upheld the lower court ruling that:
– CPS did not have “probable cause” to take the children away; and
– After many weeks of “trained professionals examining the children” have found zero zip zilch nada to back up their claims of a) polygamy nor their claims of b) abuse (even as loosely defined as they are defining it); and
– Even if they *did* have “probable cause” to remove the children from their parents they acted unlawfully in doing so (on several counts)
Not so fast.
The “right” of the parents to not have their children unlawfully taken from them apparently is not a right after all; it is a privilege.
In order to get their unlawfully seized and detained children back, apparently the parents have to agree to all sorts of “conditions.”
Just take a deep breath and consider the precedents in law that are being established right now by this case. Think about all of the precedents that were established by rulings in the “War on Drugs” (about property seizure).
This country was founded on the principle that rights belong to the people, and are only yielded grudgingly and sparingly to the state in order to secure those rights for all.
We broke away from monarchy (rights belong to the state, and are granted to the people by the state) as an incredible experiment in self-government over 200 years ago.
Where are we now?
Well if you’d ever had any contact with Texas CPS in the first place, you wouldn’t have trusted them as far as you could throw them anyway.
Several years ago, we got a visit from the local CPS agent because our neighbor didn’t like our German Shepherds and threatened us with “either do something about your dogs or I’ll make you”… knock, knock, knock
I don’t agree with FLDS at all, I don’t like what’s going on out there, but generally speaking, CPS oversteps its boundaries in most cases that it investigates and doesn’t investigate the cases that it should.
I don’t know enough about the behavioral practices of the FLDS to render a judgment as to whether I “accept” their life style choices or not.
Beside the point.
Liberty is not about *your* freedom to do what *you* want to do.
Liberty is about *your neighbors* freedom to do what *they* want to do.
Pretty much principle #1 of our founding fathers. The one thing that makes our system of government different from *all * the others.
At least until recently (1865 or thereabouts).